Why has there been a need to rebuild the left in Argentina?
The left in Latin America was never really in con- tact with the masses, especially in Argentina.
There were two great parties that were the axes
of politics and builders of the state in Argentina.
Justicialismo [Peronism] and radicalismo had nothing
to do with the orthodox left, but some of their members
did identify with the left. But the greatest conceptual
difficulty leftists in our country had was understanding
the times and the situation of the population. Populist
movements like justicialismo, which had certain leftist
elements within them, were the ones who advanced the
most politically.
Another reason for the failure of the left here is the
failure of the left elsewhere. Before 1989 one could
search for explanations in the bad strategies of each
sector, like in the Soviet Union, where there was a dou-
ble discourse and a disdain for individual liberties. In
the case of the Argentine left, when it set upon the path
of armed struggle, it did not take into account that it
was up against a professional army, and that the major-
ity of society did not support its strategies. We must
take into account that Argentine society is not a leftist
one, but one with many conservative elements. The left
embarked on a dialectic with their enemy, the armed
forces, abandoning the path of politics, as if there could
be a balance between one and the other. The
Montoneros, the People’s Revolutionary Army, and
other leftist sectors abandoned the political path much
too early, and in turn became captive of the militariza-
tion of politics-which the armed forces clearly won.
Another factor is that our authoritarian upbringing was
so much a part of us that throughout Latin America,
those sectors that honestly proposed revolution as a
means for change did so with the same conceptual
authoritarianism as those they sought to replace. When
I joined the human rights movement, for example, I saw
that the left also spurned the concepts of human rights
and democracy.
The new left in Argentina has come to value democ-
racy; it values the importance of institutions and wants
them to be strong. We give a lot of importance to the
development of institutions. Before, it was the opposite:
one had to destroy all institutions and then see what
could be done. But I would not say that FREPASO is on
the left. When 46% of the electorate of this city votes me
into office, I cannot say that my constituency is on the
left, because if I do, then I have no idea of what this city
is all about.
VOL XXXI, No 1 JuLY/AuG 1997 7
Why has there been a need
Argentina?
a 8
I A R G E N T I N AVOICES ON THE LEFT
What are the immediate challenges facing FREPASO?
One challenge is, as Secretary General of the Frente
Grande Carlos Auyero once said, having “to build the
ship as we sail,” not in a small stream, but in the high
seas. Since 1994 we have always been navigating in
some ocean. Another challenge for us is evaluating
whether the neoliberal cycle in Argentina-popularly
known as menemismo-has run its course. We believe it
has. Unless President Carlos Menem performs a mira-
cle, or there is catastrophe in the opposition, there is no
way Menem can revive people’s hope that things will
change. He has no political strategy, other than a public-
ity strategy, but he cannot make it stick with the current
high rate of unemployment. Just take a walk through
Buenos Aires and you’ll realize that there are neighbor-
hoods with 100% unemployment, not 40% as they say.
Faced with this situation, what can we do? How do
we act? How do we devise a development strategy
given this daunting legacy? We have to have an idea of
the type of state we want. That is one of the problems
of progressives throughout Latin America. We went
from the paternalist states that populism built to having
no state at all. If there is no state, then who regulates the
relationship between the powerful and the dispos-
sessed? Our principal challenge is defining what kind
of state we should build.
Do you think that FREPASO is clear about its political
role?
I believe there is a great deal of hope within
FREPASO. It is very much like the time when radical-
ismo was born as a revolutionary response to the dire
needs of immigrants, to whom it gave political expres-
sion. Half a century later, justicialismo came on the
scene, also in response to various circumstances: the
war, the challenges of the postwar period, the need to
include the marginalized, etc. It recognized massive
needs, and it sought to build a state to fulfill those
needs. It created a benefactor state, perhaps an over-
protective one, and then turned it into an industrialist
state.
From the 1970s onward, there has been an effort to
completely undo these state structures. We are aware of
the methods that are being used. Menem’s mission is
clear. Not long ago, he said that he envied Pinochet
because he [Menem] had to implement the neoliberal
model in a democratic context. That is really an expres-
sion of an old Argentine political paradigm: that a soci-
ety that demands its rights, one that seeks to control its
authorities and participate, is considered a nuisance.
That is why a corporatist and exclusive political class
was created in Argentina. Since we belong to that soci-
ety, we have to be careful not to let that tendency appear
in our midst, because history repeats itself. The prob-
lem is that it is difficult for people to believe in politics
when politicians command from very authoritarian and
elitist positions.
Another great challenge is learning how to build
mechanisms that foster democracy and equal treatment.
Today, society needs to establish the rule of law. And
we need to create institutions that function democrati-
cally and operate efficiently; let justice be independent
and uphold the rules established by society and be
applicable to everyone equally.
The objective is still to recreate a society that
includes the excluded; one that can reincorporate them
in the best way possible, without the false promise that
everyone will have salaried work, which may no longer
be possible. How do you promote the work of small and
medium-size businesses? How do you stimulate coop-
eration? And how can we come up with a national plan
for Argentina, when this country is turning into an arch-
ipelago of very distinct realities? We are appealing to
very simple things here. What natural law says that you
have to be miserable just because you are a citizen? The
same goes for discrimination. Today the progressive
movement has to move in this direction: strengthening
political liberalism is a very valuable concept for help-
ing us rethink relations between men and women. We
also have to rethink relations between people and insti-
tutions in order to win back the people.
What mechanisms does FREPASO have in place to facili-
tate grassroots participation?
This is the first time our party will have internal elec-
tions in the capital city, where we are strongest elec-
torally, though not as well organized as some other par-
ties. One way we are trying to facilitate participation is
by holding internal elections for party leaders. Only
members of FREPASO can vote to elect party officers,
and the list of legislative candidates will be made
according to the outcome of the vote. Another way to
facilitate participation is through national and local
congresses of FREPASO, where political matters are
discussed, but they are not well accepted. Campaigning
every six months is not very conducive to discussion.
Do you believe that people are more or less willing to
mobilize than they were five years ago?
Up until ten years ago people mobilized. In 1985,
when the country was returning to democracy, Alfosin
brought us all to the Plaza de Mayo in support of his
war economy plan. During the military uprising in
1987, people also rose up. Then came Alfonsin’s first
defeat, and afterwards the only one who could mobilize
people was Menem. But people were already becoming
disillusioned.
NACLA REPORT ON THE AMERICASVOICES ON THE LEFT
Today there is moderate voter turnout, political affil-
iations are not increasing much, and those who distance
themselves from politics the most are the youth. Only
now do you see something like a rekindling of young
people’s interest in some spaces.
In universities, for example?
Not just there. There are young people who are join-
ing the Red Cross or Greenpeace, which are not parties,
but social and ecological organizations. I was at a meet-
ing where young people were discussing their activi-
ties, and a young woman was saying that young people
today are easily hooked on anything
that has to do with solidarity. They
are eager to participate, for example,
when they are asked to help out at a We we
school. This is the romanticism
of the patern
youth. It’s a curious thing.
How do you evaluate the participa-
tion of Argentines in recent anti-
Menem protests, such as the national
strike and the blackout?
have been passed recently that provide reparations to
the families of the disappeared. But while the human
rights movement was very strong here during the dicta-
torship, and pushed the issues in post-dictatorship poli-
tics, it no longer has the same strength. You cannot even
say that feminist movements in Argentina are strong.
There are no great social movements here.
From the point of view of the problems in Argentina,
how do you see the problems in the rest of Latin
America?
There is a paradox in Latin America. Right now it is
Snt from
alist state of
populism to having
no state at all. If there is
no state, then who
The blackout was, interestingly regul
enough, a very individualistic mea- relationsh
sure, but it turned out to have a mas-
sive effect. The truth is that one had the powei only to stay at home in the dark, but
people found ways to make noise. dispo0
This is an example of the way the left
is proposing innovative measures
that recognize the individual. One of the difficulties
always present within the left was that the common
good subsumed the individual; now they are starting
from the individual and they are building something
more collective. The first national strike was also a chal-
lenge. It was first and foremost a protest against the eco-
nomic model. People were feeling very pessimistic. Not
long ago I read the results of a poll in which 80% of the
population said they oppose privatization. People used
to applaud privatization; when the privatizing wave
came, everybody said it was good. Now that everything
is privatized, people are reacting saying that it was no
good. I do not know if everything is worse, but they are
now angry at the same thing they cheered before.
What type of relationship does FREPASO have with
Argentine social movements, such as the human rights
movement, the feminist movement, the labor move-
ment?
Many of us in FREPASO were founders of and
activists in the human rights movement during the dic-
tatorship. And we have been actively pushing for laws
promoting human rights, like some of the laws that
rates the
ip between
rful and the
assessed?
the fastest-growing continent eco-
nomically. But at the same time,
however, in those countries where
there was the most equality, as was
the case in Argentina, there is now
more polarization. The U.S. model
is being copied at full speed. My
biggest worry is what do we do
with the youth. How do we keep
what we once had, which was to
assure good social conditions,
good health and education. I was
alarmed recently after seeing some
height charts that indicate a
decrease in the height of Argentine
children. This does not happen in
economically stable countries.
Can you tell me how Graciela
Fernandez today differs from the
human rights leader of the last decade? Besides the
changes you have already mentioned, what is different
about you today?
Less anguish. Now I know what it’s like to live with-
out anguish. One realizes the dimension of one’s
anguish only after you no longer have it. When I real-
ized that I no longer had to fear for my children’s well-
being, I started waking up without back pains. It also
has to do with age or maturity, since life teaches a great
deal. Today I face things with much less anxiety. I’m
much more involved in public life. My feet are firmly
planted on the ground, which I think is one my traits, I
was like that before. I’m generally someone tethered to
the ground.
Perhaps this coincides with everything else. Many of
the same old political figures reappear and I realize that
nothing has changed here, they are still saying the same
thing. For example, in 1982, I was in favor of not pay-
ing the foreign debt, but nowadays I ask how we ever
thought we didn’t have to pay. Now I look for negotia-
tions or some intermediate steps. That is what I mean
by maturity.
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